Pennsylvania - Is McCain Crazy, Or Are The Polls Wrong?

What to make of Pennsylvania's status as a top tier battleground state? According to RealClearPolitics, Obama has a 13.8 lead in that state, far greater than his lead in NJ or OR, both of which are assumed to be safe states for the Democrats, and haven't warranted a visit from either candidate.

Politico is featuring a story today on McCain's continuing attempts to win the state, calling it a "risky play:"

Pennsylvania hasn't voted Republican for president since 1988. Democrats have increased their registration numbers here by more than a half-million over the past year, and Barack Obama has a double-digit lead in the polls.

Yet John McCain's campaign continues to signal that it intends to contest the state and its 21 electoral votes to the end. It is a high-risk, high-return endeavor: Pennsylvania represents a costly gambit, one that siphons resources from must-win states such as Ohio and Florida, but a win here would enable McCain to lose a few other states that George W. Bush carried and still capture the White House.

Of course, McCain could be making a "Hail Mary" attempt to carry the state in the hope of pulling off a miracle as his chances sink across the board. But if that was the case, wouldn't the Obama campaign just ignore him and focus on making inroads elsewhere?

Instead, Obama was in PA just yesterday, with four separate rallies in just two hours.

And Biden, whose Scranton roots were part of the reason for his pick, has made several visits to the state, including a rally tomorrow with both of the Clintons:

Biden will stump in Scranton Sunday with Clinton and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, a schedule that will bring Biden's total days campaigning in the state to five -- the same as Palin.

In other words, Obama's team is taking McCain's efforts to contest PA seriously, UNLIKE IN IOWA, where they don't seem to be.

And here's Rendell at the rally yesterday, making them sound like the underdog here:

At one rally, in a North Philadelphia neighborhood near Temple University, Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, the popular former Philadelphia mayor who backed Clinton in the primary, warned the crowd of 20,000 that Obama would need a massive turnout in Philadelphia to carry the state.

"In the primary, only 53 percent of registered voters in Philadelphia turned out," Rendell said. "Ladies and gentlemen, 24 days from today, 53 percent will not cut it. It will not cut it. If we want to make sure Barack Obama is the 44th president of the United States, we need to turn out at least 75 percent."

In 2004, Democratic presidential nominee John F. Kerry crushed President Bush in the city by more than 400,000 votes on his way to winning the state by about 144,000 votes. Since then, Democrats have increased their voter registration edge substantially in the city.

Rendell told reporters after a rally in city's Germantown section that his goal is for Obama to drive a historic turnout in Philadelphia and then to meet or exceed Kerry's showing in Pittsburgh and the rest of the state. Rendell predicted the best opportunities for improvement are in south central Pennsylvania, which is becoming less conservative as it absorbs population from Philadelphia, and traditionally Democratic northeastern Pennsylvania.

So what's the deal with the polling here? Clearly, both campaign's internals must show a closer race than 13 points, but how much closer? And, if that's true, why are the polls so far off?



Display:


Re: Pennsylvania - A BATTLEGROUND (2.00 / 2)

it's a battleground !!!!

From: Open Left:

The Washington Post maintains a webpage titled "Political Landscape 2008." This webpage has been updated recently enough to reflect Obama's 13.8% polling lead in Pennsylvania, a trend that uses polls released as recently as Wednesday. On this webpage, the Washington Post collects recent polling data, and then declares a state to either be a "battleground," or leaning toward one party or the other. Here are some of their polling averages and diagnoses:

Obama +13.8%: Battleground state (PA)
Obama +10.4%: Battleground state (NH)
Obama +10.0%: Battleground state (NJ)
Obama +9.5%: Battleground state (IA)
Obama +9.0%: Battleground state (OR)
Obama +8.2%: Battleground state (MN)
Obama +8.2%: Battleground state (MI)
Obama +8.8%: Battleground state (WI)
Obama +7.3%: Battleground state (NM)
McCain +6.8%: Leaning Republican (GA)
Obama +5.1%: Battleground state (VA)
Obama +4.0%: Battleground state (CO)
McCain +3.8%: Leaning Republican (IN)
Obama +3.5%: Battleground state (OH)
Obama +3.1%: Battleground state (FL)
Obama +3.0%: Battleground state (NV)
McCain +2.2%: Leaning Republican (WV)

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?dia ryId=9018


"But not me personally were those cheers for"
by QTG on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:44:05 PM EST

ADMITTEDLY Tin Foil Hat Territory Here! (none / 0)

While I don't believe this fully, it would not be at all surprising to me...

What if the Repubs are setting us up for some "Election Day Surprises"? I can see some "voting irregularities" leading to "surprise" McCain upsets in OH, PA, and IA where those "last ditch campaigning efforts" pay off for them in the end. I dunno - 13% is a lot to sweep aside, but nothing seems below them at this point. They're dangerous and they're losing. What can we expect from cornered animals other than viciously unethical responses?


by RNinNC on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ADMITTEDLY Tin Foil Hat Territory Here! (2.00 / 1)

I think they'd have a lot tougher time this year, just because they don't hold the governors' office in Ohio like they did in 2004.


by Bush Bites on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:28:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

When you have nothing to lose, (none / 0)

you have everything to gain, huh?


That's it, baby; let's go win this election!
by Beltway Dem on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:25:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 2)

No way does the GOP win PA.  We have won PA 4 straight General Elections.  I think the McCain campaign will soon pull out of every state that Gore/Kerry won in 2000/2004.  

He will then move to the hail mary campaign where he will have to win every state that Bush won minus NM and IA.  I think that is potentially possible but really unlikely.  And if the stock market does settle down McCain is toast because he cant win in the voters are locked into the economy.

david


by giusd on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:46:25 PM EST

Re: Pennsylvania - Is McCain Crazy or...? (2.00 / 1)

Politico says "the McCain campaign continues to signal it intends to contest the state and its 21 electoral votes to the end. It is a high-risk, high-return endeavor: Pennsylvania represents a costly gambit, one that siphons resources from must-win states such as Ohio and Florida, but a win here would enable McCain to lose a few other states that George W. Bush carried and still capture the White House."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/100 8/14495.html


by phoenixdreamz on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:53:53 PM EST

Re: Pennsylvania - Is McCain Crazy or...? (none / 0)

animated, for some reason I didn't see you quote that when I first read your diary.


by phoenixdreamz on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:56:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pennsylvania (2.00 / 3)

It's a good question.  Maybe the McCain campaign is gambling that the demographics of Pennsylvania are such that any late break for McCain would make the state more vulnerable than, say, Colorado or Iowa.  Why?  Because PA has this swath of Appalachia.

So the thinking goes like this.  If McCain loses Ohio, Virginia, and possibly North Carolina, the race if friggin' over, and nothing we do will make any difference.  Either the Appalachian firewall holds or it doesn't.

Colorado, New Mexico, and Iowa, however, are gone.  If Obama gets this combo and the Appalachian firewall holds we'll still lose (esp. if Nevada goes Dem, also not in Appalachia).

So let's bank everything on Appalachia.  This is where Obama's support among Dems seems softest.  If the firewall holds, and we can flip PA, and hold onto FL, we win.

If you look at the options in front of McCain, this isn't such a bad strategy.  The alternatives would have been contesting Colorado and New Mexico or battling it out in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan, but in both of these regions support for Obama isn't soft (ie. Dems aren't likely to flip).

If I were McCain, btw, I would have fought it out in Colorado and New Mexico (but heck, I would have done a lot of things different).


by IncognitoErgoSum on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 02:00:39 PM EST

Re: Pennsylvania (2.00 / 1)

This seems about right to me, and correlates nicely with what Nate Silver at 538 said recently (sorry, couldn't find it)...that the only way McCain wins is if there's some kind of game changing event. So, he wants to have a presence in the place where such an event would have the maximum impact.  Appalachia is probably that place.  I would think that Ohio would be a better place to focus, but then again, far be it from me to figure out the inner workings of the McCain campaign mind!


by Chicago Lulu on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 02:08:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pennsylvania (2.00 / 1)

They also have absolutely NO early voting, so it would be a clean slate for them on election day...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 03:26:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pennsylvania (2.00 / 1)

Exactly  but John McCain is currently losing Virginia and Florida. Winning PA wont' do anything if he has lost those two states as well as CO,NM, IA,NV.

I completely understand their strategy but it is completely reliant on a major catastrophic shift in the next 23 days and the chances of that are around 1%.

Game over.


by sweet potato pie on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 03:57:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pennsylvania - Is McCain Crazy, Or Are The Pol (2.00 / 2)

We NEED to seal up OH. Big CNN ticker this AM said McCain is gaining ground there. We NEED Clinton to help with this as she does much better out there.


by jrsygrl on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 02:06:13 PM EST

Meh (2.00 / 1)

Kerry states + NM, IA, and CO is a win.  Right now, FL and VA are looking like they're going Obama's way.  Any number of winning combinations are possible without Ohio.  It's all about GOTV now.

Still, I'm glad to see both Clintons out on the trail for Obama this week.


by Chicago Lulu on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 02:10:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pennsylvania - Is McCain Crazy, Or Are The Pol (2.00 / 1)

Based on the Ohio Newspapers poll, I imagine... That poll is a week old and has some strange weighting to it...

I just saw the ticker... yeah, that's the one!  And it gained McCain one whole point!  

What a joke...  The media is still desperately trying to make this a horserace...  I'm sure they will succeed in trying to tighten things...

But, Nate Silver has already taken that into account in his models.


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 03:28:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pennsylvania - Is McCain Crazy, Or Are The Pol (none / 0)

I don't  think we should get comfortable. If there is any party that can pull this out it is the GOP. And sorry but OH is VERY important. I do agree that the media will do whatever they can to keep it close  & help McCain now which is very problematic.

And God Forbid Lorne Michaels has Palin on SNL - people's perception of her WILL change as she is personalized. Keep in mind we are dealing with the undecided voter here they aren't exactly the brightest bulbs in the batch to be this fickle given the loads of information that is probably right on their proverbial doorstep.


by jrsygrl on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:09:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pennsylvania - Is McCain Crazy, Or Are The Pol (none / 0)

Actually, the only poll that would break toward McCain in Ohio lately is the University of Cincinnati poll, which has McCain up 48-46. The problem is that the last U of C poll had McCain up 48-42, which means Obama is gaining, not McCain.


by elrod on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:31:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Desperate, not crazy. (2.00 / 3)

McCain is playing blackjack.  The dealer has 20 showing.  McCain has 19.  What should he do?

He has to ask the dealer for a hit, even though the chances of him getting 21 at this point are extremely slim.  All strategies suck.


by Dumbo on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 02:48:31 PM EST

Re: Desperate, not crazy. (2.00 / 1)

Brilliant analogy. Be good to have your clear headed gambler's mind on the Moose


Now Loose on the Moose
by brit on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 04:41:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh. I was actually told I was not welcome there. (none / 0)

Just as well.  A couple of people there I would prefer to avoid.


by Dumbo on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:07:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh. I was actually told I was not welcome th (none / 0)

I don't know who told you that (though I can guess). Ignore it. The place is a collective of 25 founder members, most of whom you'd be at home with. Check it out. Sure there would be plenty of others who would welcome you there


Now Loose on the Moose
by brit on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:37:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pennsylvania - Is McCain Crazy (2.00 / 3)

I vote crazy.


by Skaje on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 02:58:08 PM EST

Re: Pennsylvania (2.00 / 2)

He has no choice. He has to take a stand somewhere to make for the likely loss of Colorado, Virginia, Iowa and New Mexico.


by RandyMI on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 02:58:36 PM EST

Appalachia and the Bradley Effect (none / 0)

If there is a Bradley effect, perhaps the McCain campaign is seeing - that it's mostly likely to happen in the Appalachian states - OH, WV, PA, VA.


by tietack on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:04:16 PM EST

Re: Pennsylvania (none / 0)

I think that, although Obama does have a large lead, Obama's support may be a bit softer here than elsewhere. So, while a LOT of people support him right now, that support may not be as locked in as it is elsewhere.
That's why it makes sense for Obama and Biden and the Clintons to spend some time in the state. They're not really trying to increase their lead anymore (that would be time wasted) but they want to firm up the state and turn the soft support into hard support.
McCain/Palin is just there to try and scare the shit out of everybody.
by EvilAsh on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:00:49 PM EST

Re: Pennsylvania - Is McCain Crazy, Or Are (none / 0)

McCain is simply acting logically.  He's down by a lot, everywhere, and is simply trying to keep a foothold in the state in case some external event works dramatically in his favor.  I'm pretty sure that's all that's going on, people need to chill.


by rfahey22 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:06:22 PM EST

He has taxpayer mney to burn (none / 0)

80 million $, so let him do whatever he pleases.


by ann0nymous on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:06:37 PM EST

For some reason this reminded me of (2.00 / 1)

Some absolutely Psycho Puma, who, after the Repub convention logged on and ran around all the threads claiming all these states, Penn being one would go dramatically red...

ThenI remember he gave future date, like Sept 10, where with Palin on the ticket, California would swing to McCain..

It was going to be like a 46 state blow-out, because of Palin!

Where are those idiots when their predictions turn to turds....


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:20:03 PM EST

I remeber that, he said that on 9/11 (2.00 / 1)

a new Field poll would show California in play. I didn't see those other predictions, but I would like to say to him/her, OLLIE-OLLIE-OLSON-FREE!


by Davidsfr on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:05:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain not crazy and polls not wrong (none / 0)

McCain is not crazy to focus on PA because he needs insurance against CO.

But I don't think the polls are wrong in PA. Strategic Vision, a very Republican pollster, has Obama up by 14 points. The Muhlenberg tracker has Obama by 12.

But McCain has no choice. If he gives up on PA then he plays whack-a-mole in CO, VA, NC, OH and FL.  

This is his only chance.


by elrod on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:36:01 PM EST

Re: Pennsylvania - Is McCain Crazy (2.00 / 1)

Obama doesn't have the election yet.  Until the stock market crashed, he was only up by about 2 percent in PA.  PA has a high percentage of retired people who lost a lot of money in the stock market.  Though it is never mentioned, the number of retired people in PA is as high as it is in Florida relative to population.  McCain had that demographic when things were going better.  Elections can turn on a dime, and I think Obama's support in the state is due only to the way the economy has gone.  Should there be any upswing in the economy, things could possibly turn around for McCain in a lot of states.  The polls climbed this high in a very short period of time, and the support is not necessarily solid Solid for Obama, so what else does McCain do in this type of atmosphere, but hope for the best.


by Scotch on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:39:25 PM EST

That would have to be a record (2.00 / 1)

turnaround in the economy of 3 weeks to get people to think that the economy is fine and dandy.  
Even if the market stabilizes, the damage has been done in the minds of a lot of people.

Formerly Clintonite4McCain Joe Lieberman Democrat. Supported Biden then Clinton. Will vote for Obama/Biden over McCain/Palin.
by ClintoniteNoLonger4McCain on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:41:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That would have to be a record (2.00 / 1)

For a lot of people, but only half of them would have to change back to him to make a difference, or less to make it too close for comfort.  It wouldn't even have to be the economy.  Something related to terrorism or war could even do it.


by Scotch on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:20:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That would have to be a record (none / 0)

Yeah, I think the economy is not going to turn better any time soon.

This actually came up on Fox News recently (yes, I watch it occasionally) and even Bill Kristol mentioned that the unemployment report will come out just before the election. And this quarter is bad.


by elrod on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:22:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it's only going to get worse (none / 0)

Scoth, while the Stockmarket may limp back to some sembelance of semi-health, the NEXT news coming down the line is unemployment, lay-offs...

And reduced holiday spending. Keep in mind, there are a large swatch of companies that make THEIR ENTIRE YEAR from holiday sales.

Those folks are going to have a brutal year, the anger in the country is going to be palpable, and there IS no economic good news coming down the pike for John McCain.


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 12:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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